Please note before reading: 1. You have seen the E ending or read about it in this book. 2. You have read all the short stories in this book (P240~272). 3. Have read all of the previous interview articles (P227~231) 4. Please read the following section only if you meet the above requirements. ## Participants ### Yosuke Saito (Producer) Yosuke Saito is a director and executive officer at Square Enix, and the producer of the “NieR” series. His nickname is Yosupi. ### Yoko Taro (Creative Director) Creative Director of “ver.1.22…”. His name has changed from Kanji to Kana in the past 11 years. ### Saki Ito (Director) Saki Ito is an up-and-coming young creator working at Toy Logic. He is also the director of “ver.1.22” ### Keiichi Okabe (Composer) Representative director of MONACA. He wrote the music for the series. He is nicknamed “Okabe of the World” by staff members and fans. ## After 11 years, another “Replicant” will be born on April 22 On April 22, 2021, 11 years after the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions were released, “ver. 1.22… has been released. How do you all feel about it now? I’d like to start with you, Mr. Okabe. First of all, I’m relieved that the game was released successfully and thanks to that, it seems that many people are playing it. I simply thought it would be released during the 10th anniversary, so I was surprised that it came out on the 11th anniversary, but I guess that’s just the result of all the hard work Yoko-san put into it (laughs). Mr. Okabe, I suppose you and the rest of the MONACA staff haven’t be able to get your hands on the game until after the music is delivered, is that correct? That’s right. So, when I finally played the game after it was released, I was really impressed with how well it felt in my hands. I felt that the fans would be satisfied with it. From the perspective of a fan myself, I was glad to see it. I see. By the way, have you reached the “E End” that was added in this game? I’m afraid I haven’t reached that point yet. I think I’ll just take it easy (laughs). It’s okay to play only the beginning and then watch a playthrough. It’s true that things have changed a lot in the past 11 years ago, with the rise of steaming and let’s play series. …… But is it okay for a producer to say that (laughs)? Well, that’s how things are nowadays. So how do you feel about it now? As Okabe-san mentioned, the release date of April 22 was made with the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions in mind, wasn’t it? There were some twists and turns there. At first, I thought I could release it during the 10th anniversary. Isn’t that right? But in reality, this was quite difficult. So we decided to release the game on April 22, which was the same day as the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions, so that the fans would forgive us…… The fans were also excited about the 10th anniversary and were looking forward to the release. As a result, I think it was a good thing that our birthdays fell on the same day. Yes. But there was a time when we worried that we wouldn’t be able to finish it in time. Hahaha. Yoko’s laugh seems to be full of meaning. Is this because the development team, including Yoko and Ito, put a lot of effort into this game? That’s right. It’s because of Yoko’s persistence and also because of Ito (laughs). I’m sorry for making you wait…… I think it turned out well, though. When we released the upgraded version, it didn’t feel strange to release it on the same date as the original. To be honest, the strongest feeling I have is that I’m glad we got it done in time. I’m glad we made it in time, but we didn’t (laughs). It’s called the 10th anniversary, but it’s late for the 10th anniversary. That’s very “NieR”, isn’t it? (laughs). “It’s NieR, so it’s okay” is a magic expression that has been cultivated over the last 10 years, and it has created an atmosphere of acceptance. That’s true (laughs). How about you, Yoko? Including the fact that the release date is now April 22nd. I don’t really care about the release date. I was only thinking that if it was delayed, Square Enix would be in trouble. Of course, that would have been a problem. My feelings are…hum right. I’m sure Okabe feels the same, but I initially thought it would be great to be able work on a game again without having to write a lot of new songs or stories. However, when we opened the lid, there were many difficulties. There were a lot of “I didn’t know this was possible ………” cases. I’d love to hear about the difficulties of development later. Before that, could you tell us how you are feeling? My honest impression is that I am glad to have been involved in the development of this game. I was in the position of a player 11 years ago, so I was not only happy to be involved in the development of an upgraded version of my favorite game, but I also believe this has been a highly formative experience as a developer. I’m grateful in two ways. Eleven years ago, you were still on the player’s side, weren’t you? Yes, from the perspective of a fan, with this “ver. 1.22…” I was very excited because I felt that fans who had been playing the previous games and people who came into contact with the series from NieR:Automata and NieR Re[in]carnation were enjoying the festival together. I’ve been sticking around social media almost every day to see what fans have to say about the game, and I’ve also been watching livestreams. It’s nice to see creators jumping in, having fun and interacting with the fans. ## The true meaning behind the word “upgrade” in games Let’s get more on the business side here. This “ver. 1.22… Is this version 1.22… a reward for fans of the original version or a way to return to the roots for those who came to the series from Automata and Re[in]carnation? I think the biggest reason is that the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions have become difficult to play. We’ve been receiving requests for remakes and remasters for a long time, but after Automata was released, those requests became even louder, so we wanted to genuinely respond to those requests. I see. So your choice was based on the fans. Of course, since “Automata” has sold 5.5 million copies worldwide (as of May 2021), I thought that “Replicant” would also sell well if we re-released it. (laughs) It’s been about half a month since the release, how do you feel about it? It’s already a very successful remaster or remake. I think we can expect more to come. To tell the truth, NieR games tends to sell slowly but steadily, just like Automata did. Fortunately, the NieR series also has another ongoing title called Re[in]carnation, so if we can make it known worldwide through events and live broadcasts, I think that popularity will bring more people to the other games. I want to take good care of this series and nurture it. “Ver. 1.22… is not just a remaster, but also an “upgrade”. It was Yoko, wasn’t it? You were the one who first started calling it an “upgrade”. At first, it was just a remaster. As we developed the game, it got better and better, so I didn’t feel like it was just a remaster. However, it’s not so much a remake as it is an upgrade, so I used the word “upgrade” to describe it as something in between. As Yoko said, if I had to rank the degree of change in my mind, I’d say “remaster, remake, upgrade”, with the upgrade being the highest. Personally, the word “upgrade” feels really appropriate to me. It’s amazing how you have been able to keep the feel of the old Replicant, while adjusting it to the sensibilities of players who’ve played through Automata. That’s what we were aiming for, so I’m glad to hear you say that. As an upgraded version of the original, I definitely wanted to preserve the atmosphere of the past. It’s been 11 years since the original game was released, so I’m sure some players remember the original game to be better than it actually was. So, we had to make sure the quality of the game was satisfactory. I also wanted to make sure that people who came to the game from Automata would not feel awkward playing the prequel. Is the existence of Automata something that can’t be ignored? Of course. We can’t ignore it, and there are many aspects of it that we use as a great example. I feel that the inclusion of Automata elements was exquisite. I played Replicant 11 years ago, and after playing Automata, I came back to this “ver. 1.22….”. The feel of the game is very familiar to me, to the point where I had to wonder if my memory was playing tricks on me or if the PS3 version was really like this too (laughs). I understand what you’re saying, I felt exactly the same way. With Automata sandwiched in the middle, it made me think that the original story was also like this, which of course can’t be true (laughs). When I played the original version again, I was surprised to find that I couldn’t use physical and magical attacks simultaneously. Since I was used to the “sword-fighting action and long-distance attacks with pods” in Automata, I felt righ at home with ver. 1.22. I felt that the game system, as well as my player intuition, had been upgraded. Even among the development team members, there were people who were like, “Wasn’t this always the way it was? (laughs). We tried to make the game playable without any sense of discomfort, so I’m glad it worked out well. ## Which version do you prefer? Beautifully revamped visuals I understand that the visual aspect of the game has been updated as well. The modeling and other aspects of the game have undergone a major overhaul, haven’t they? As for modeling, some of the NPCs have been reused, but for the main characters, everything has been recreated from scratch. And since the characters’ body sizes have changed, we’ve made a lot of adjustments to the motion as well. Of course, we used some of the original motions, but there were a lot of things that didn’t look right when we tried to use them on the new models. This was unexpected addition work, and one of the reasons why it took us so long to develop …… (smiles). The visuals have become so beautiful because of all the hard work. Kaine has become more beautiful. One thing that I feel must have been difficult with the upgrade is that some people may say that the original models were better. Yes, indeed. I’m sure there are people who feel that way. At first, I was also a little bothered by some parts of the game, but the more I played, the less I felt uncomfortable. I think the best way to describe it is to say that the makeup has changed to a more modern style. But even if the appearance has changed, Kaine is still Kaine. Actually, it’s more like make-up, but on top of plastic surgery (laughs). It’s a make-over, a make-over (laughs). As for the modeling, it’s more in the style of Automata, and I’m conscious of that. I see. So, you had 2B in mind during some aspects of the modeling? Ito: It was one of the main inspirations. It was very difficult to make them look good, so we had a hard time. In the beginning, Yoko-san poked you a lot, didn’t he (laughs)? Yes, I really had a hard time (bitter smile). Actually, not only Automata’s but also the staff of Re[in]carnation supervised various things. I see. So that quality was only achieved by transcending the boundaries of various development companies. Many people have lent their support to us. I’d like to thank them from the bottom of my heart. Incidentally, how long was the development period itself? It’s been about two and a half years. We were actually planning to make it in two years. But two and a half years with all that reworking is still impressive. Especially for the graphics. For the graphics, we had to increase the amount of detail, so it took a long time to adjust. We asked Kazuma Koda, who helped us with Automata, to do the concept art and create the general guidelines, but the details in the art that came out were so intricate that we wondered if we could reproduce them in the game. However, the young staff members who worked on the backgrounds were very talented, and they were able to create an atmosphere similar to the art. So, in addition to the atmosphere that “Replicant” had from the beginning, we were able to incorporate the atmosphere of Koda’s art and improve the quality while taking the best of both worlds. ## It’s like a whack-a-mole, bugs that are spreading all over the place. Is the visual aspect of the game what you were most particular about? We spent a lot of time on the visuals, but the most difficult part was the soundtrack. …… The soundtrack? Okabe-san is that correct? No, no, no, no (laughs). That’s not true. …… As for the music and graphics, we didn’t have any trouble with them, since they worked well, even though they took a long time to create. I’m sure it was a lot of work on site, but I only had to check things from time to time. So, what was difficult exactly? There were a lot of bugs in the volume balance of the sound effects. It was like a whack-a-mole, a negative chain of events, like “If we fix this, we’ll have problems over there,” and it continued until just before the mastering. I had taken it upon myself to think that it was a joke, that “World of Okabe[^1]” had delayed the delivery of the OST, but it turned out to be quite a serious story. No, no, no (laughs). But you tighten it up right? In all my years of gamedev, this was the first time I’ve seen a bug loop around software like this, so it was a valuable experience for me. It was the first time even for someone as experienced as Yoko-san! It’s a funny story now that you’ve gotten over it, but I’m sure it must have been quite a challenge. It takes a lot of time to actually listen to and check the sound. That’s why this time we asked Mr. Electromagnetic Sano (real name: Nobuyoshi Sano), who was in charge of sound for “Drag-On Dragoon”, to join us and check the sound. I didn’t expect to see Sano-san’s name here! Indeed (laughs). Team Yoko was working at full capacity. An All-star made of Platinum Games, Applibot, and even Electromagnetic Sano. I’m sure it must have been quite a challenge to get everyone on board. Yes indeed, …… (smiles). What was the most memorable development episode for you? All of them are unforgettable, but if I had to pick one, it would be the Mermaid episode added in “ver. 1.22…”. What part of it specifically? We started from scratch there, so it was a real struggle. It was very difficult, including flag management. At first, there were gimmicks like puzzles in the ship, and the boss was more complicated. But then I thought it was too confusing, so we started to simplify it. When it comes to the added episodes, we can’t talk about them without mentioning the “E Ending” that was added in this game. That’s right. It was originally release in the form of a novel, not part of the game, so we had to decide on how to present it. The E end is based on the novel “The Lost World” that was included in the original “GRIMOIRE NieR” guide book and setting material collection, but there are various differences between the novel and the game. It’s refreshing to suddenly have a “cyberspace” element or direction in the game. I think that was an idea from Yoko, but I made that part with the hacking style of Automata in mind. The part where Kaine is reunited with Weiss in the cyberspace was included in the story, and it really hit me. Thank you very much. I was very particular about that part. When I heard the idea from Mr. Yoko and the scenario team, I thought, “This has to be a very moving scene! I was really excited. That idea led to the development of the direction and other aspects of the sequence. I was careful of how to appeal to the emotions of the players in a dramatic way, and I hope that many players will enjoy it while playing the game. ## What the past 11 years have taught us…… For Yoko-san, Saito-san, and Okabe-san, I think this was an opportunity to take on again what you couldn’t do 11 years ago and what was left undone. In that sense, can you tell us what you three were particularly conscious of this time? When the three of us first got together, the question of “what to do with the music in the first place?” was naturally on the agenda. I think I mentioned this in an interview at the time, but the mix of NieR Replicant was rough, and I personally wasn’t fully satisfied with it. As a professional, I tried to do the best quality I could with the budget and schedule I had at the time. However, back then, I never imagined that the soundtrack of this work would be released and that many people would be able to listen to it. There are some parts of the soundtrack that are difficult to listen to… ……. I’m sure you’ll agree with me. I’ve myself listened to the soundtrack many times, but I have no idea what “Older” Okabe is referring to…… (chuckle). It’s just really small details, so the general public may not notice it while listening. To put it another way, even if we had made the changes this time, there was a high possibility that many people would just say, “…what exactly has changed…?” you know. If it had been the case, it would have been for nothing more than my own personal satisfaction. So, I thought, if I’m going to spend the money and resources, let’s go all the way and rearranged the music and re-record it. In that sense, this is an upgraded version for me, and I would say a complete version. In “Replicant”, there were many scenes where short songs were looping over and over again, but this time there were many new developments in the songs. I enjoyed this nostalgic and fresh feeling. Thank you very much. The songs are arranged according to the originals, so I don’t think they are too different. Even so, I’m sure there are some people who will feel unsatisfied. ….. For me, I’m happy if people can accept and enjoy this part of my work. However, I think a certain amount of feedback is necessary in a positive sense, not only for the music but for the game as a whole. Otherwise, there would be no point in trying to improve. In the video that was uploaded to YouTube at the time of the announcement, we intentionally used the new section of a song, and many people reacted to that. We received a lot of requests, especially from overseas fans, “Please include the original song! from overseas fans in particular. At the time, we were just trying to clarify that it would sound different, but we wouldn’t actually be using it that way in the game. …… In fact, if you play the game, it doesn’t feel that different. I was surprised when I saw that video for the first time, but I think it was a catchy promotion that got people talking. So, how was it for you, Yoko? Were all the unfinished parts of the project completed to your satisfaction? I don’t really have any sense of “unfinished business”. Each time, I just try to fit together what I can make within the given budget and schedule like a puzzle. In that sense, I think I send out a product that is full marks each time. Is that so? Well, if you look at it in terms of whether it’s personally satisfying or not, I give it about 70/100 points every time (laughs). Every time, there are about 30 things that I come up with that I wish could be done a little better. But even if I start working on it, I’m sure I’ll come up with another 30 or so ideas before I’m finished. In other words, in your mind, it will never be 100 points? That’s right. That’s why, as I said before, I try to send out full mark works after balancing the schedule and budget. Even if there are some rough spots, it’s still 100 points. Then, I’m ready to start the next work. …… (laughs). For creators, it’s meaningless unless the product is completed first. …… Now, I’d like to ask you about the promotion part. Was there anything you left undone last time, or did you have to do it all over again this time? As for promotion, I think we were given a lot of freedom this time because of the success of Automata. I don’t think I did anything out of the ordinary. …… No, the truck with Emil Head on it might have been unexpected, but that was just a bonus (laughs). We continued to focus on the video promotion strategy that was so popular in Automata. In “Automata”, the ad were dolls are been destroyed attracted a lot of attention in various ways. This time, the catchphrase was “For the sake of one, destroy all”, and the word “kill” is used a lot in the game, so I thought it would be difficult to air a commercial on cable TV. As it turned out, though, we were able to make and air a commercial in which players fight Shades in Shinjuku. I think it was a very aggressive video. For people who know what Shades are, I think it was a pretty horrible display. That’s what I was trying to suggest. It’s a short video, but I made it in the hope that people would feel that it was different from ordinary games. It was only because of Automata that we were able to do that, so we really owe it to Automata. That’s right. I can’t thank you enough, Mr. Taura (Takahisa Taura, game designer of “Nier Automata”). I really can’t thank you enough. (laughs) ## What Emil Head Brought to You Speaking of promotion, I have one personal thought about ……. What is it? Let’s talk about the Emil head. Ever since “Automata”, you’ve been wearing an Emil head whenever you’re in the media, right? As a result, when you see Emil’s face, you can’t help but think of him. Ah~. Well, ……, that wasn’t Emil or Experimental Weapon No. 7, but rather Yoko Taro (laught). Yoko-san used to say that the reason he doesn’t show his face is because “if you see the faces behind the scenes, it gets in the way of enjoying the work,” but after being a fan for so long, my body has corrected itself to see things from a meta perspective. I’m really sorry to hear that ……. But it can’t be helped now, or rather, he was destined to be that way. The voice actor Hiroki Yasumoto, who is in charge of Weiss in “Ver. 1.22…”, even introduced Emil as “the future Yoko Taro” in a video for a certain project (laughs). When I was working on Automata, no one thought that the day would come when I would make an upgraded version of Replicant, so I can’t be held responsible for that. In light of that claim, it may be that we shouldn’t have done this upgrade after all! No, it’s not. Please don’t say anything extreme! (laughs) ## About the two episodes added in the upgrade Now, I’d like to delve a little deeper into the additional elements that Mr. Ito mentioned earlier. First of all, who came up with the idea of including the “Little Mermaid” episode and the ending E? That was part of Saito-san’s orders from the beginning, wasn’t it? That’s right. Since this is an upgraded version of the game, I wanted to add elements that would please the fans in some way. However, Yoko-san was very busy and didn’t seem to have the time to create something from scratch, so we thought it would be a good idea to add elements that we couldn’t implement at the time. In that sense, I guess I was able to digest the “unfinished business,” or rather, my regrets, as you asked earlier. In my mind, this was just an “upgrade”, so I didn’t feel it would be right to change everything. So, I thought it would be a good idea to include episodes from “The Little Mermaid” and “E End”, which are part of the “Replicant” series, but were not included in the game. From what I’ve heard from Mr. Ito, there were quite a few difficulties. Yes, there were. It was a continuous process of trial and error until we decided how we should present it. To begin with, both “The Little Mermaid” and “E End” were written content, so we hadn’t envisioned visualizing them in a game at all. Of course, we couldn’t implement the story as it was, so we had to rethink the game’s storyline. Is there any reason why you chose Yui Ishikawa (2B), Natsuki Hanae (9S), and Aoi Yuuki (Pascal) from Automata as the voice actors for the main characters in the additional episodes? It was a service to the fans, and also a way for me to reaffirm the continuity and connection between the worlds of Replicant and Automata. That was something that Saito-san had asked me to do in the first place. That’s right. I wanted the voice actors who made Automata so popular to appear in some way, not only as a fan service, but also because it’s clear that the upgrade was made possible by the popularity of “Automata”. I see. The fact that there was a connection through the voice actors resulted in a lot of discussion and so on. It’s fine, isn’t it? I’m sure Yoko-san will come up with the proper setting after the fact. “After the fact” (laughs). Well, I guess that’s the point. I thought it would be interesting to have the voices of the main characters from Automata mixed in. There are a lot of characters that didn’t have voices in Replicant to begin with, so having the voice actors from Automata voicing those characters seemed like a good idea as a fan service. So it was a good fit for you as well. I’m going to digress a bit here, but there was no character that fit well with the character of Kaoru Akiyama, who played Pod153 in Automata, so I had to think about what to do with him. As a result, I thought, “How about having Akiyama-san voice a character in every village? This led to the creation of a new game called “Akiyama Search”. (laughs) I hope you’ll try to find those voice lines for fun. ## Who are those two people after all? The true meaning of the secret that is not “dared” to be revealed Do you have any kind of settings in mind for the new elements that have been added? Some of them have settings, and some are just for fun, so it’s hard to say. For example, it makes sense that the mysterious boy and girl in Ending E are the same as the voice actors of 2B and 9S…… What does that mean? If you’ve played both “Ver. 1.22…” and Automata, you might be able to imagine what I’m referring to when talking about those two characters. But that’s not the main focus of this story, and I don’t think it’s right for me to explain all of that information here, saying, “Well actually, here how everything came to be”. That’s not fair. In your last book, GRIMOIRE NieR, you revealed a lot of information that wasn’t told in the game, but I wonder if your intention this time is to keep the secrets to yourself. That’s not what I meant. …I just want to make sure that there are always fresh surprises, whether in games or other content. In the case of the previous edition of the book, we were able to give information and even an ending that wasn’t told in the game, so I’m glad we were able to take on new challenges this time. On the other hand, it was a big regret for me that I took away the player’s room for imagination… If the creator answers the question, then it becomes the answer, and there is no room for imagination. That’s what I meant. When I reread the last set of materials, I thought, “It’s not good for the creators to talk too much.” Indeed, as I saw the stage performances that Yoko-san worked on, I began to think, “Perhaps there will be additional content that wasn’t revealed in the game or setting materials that will be deepened in the next game, comic, or side material.” I think it’s good that there are things that can be talked about and things that can’t be talked about. At the very least, I don’t want to give answers to all the questions. ## Is the white flower that blooms at the end of “E End” a motif from a “specific manga”? I think it’s true that a story is more interesting when there are blank spaces. I also understand that you want to keep that in mind. I’d like to ask you a question before my tongue dries up. What was the meaning of the giant flower that bloomed in the last scene of ending E in the game? Hmmm ……. If it’s related to Kaine, could it be a Lunar Tear? Wrong answer, try again. Beep beep, let’s go to the next question. W-Wait a minute, please. Let me ask you a few more questions. I’m very sorry, but when I saw that video, I thought it was a bit sexual. That’s why I wanted to know what it really meant. No, no, no. It’s fine. I don’t have any problem if you take it as sexual or something like that. As I said before, if I reveal the answer here, it would take away the room for imagination, so I’ll refrain from going any further. It’s a game, so people can take it in their own way, and keep thinking about it. I see. That’s the thing. In shoujo manga, when a girl and her boyfriend get together, there are flowers blooming in the background, right? No, no, no, no. That’s a kind of staging or a mental representation. It’s not like it’s actually blooming. So, I wondered what would happen if I actually made it bloom instead of staging it. You say this so casually, but how serious are you? Now that it’s bloomed, some people are even talking about the connection with “Drag-on Dragoon 3 (DOD3)”. Yes, yes. When I first saw it, it immediately reminded me of DOD3. Rather than a Lunar Tear, it reminded me of Zero’s flower. If Square Enix continues to give us the budget, I’m sure we’ll be able to reveal more about that eventually. It’s like those lotteries where you pull a string that’s often found at night stalls at festivals. There’s a lot of bad luck, but if you keep drawing, you’re bound to win at some point. Isn’t it just too much work for Saito-san to pull in the budget? (laughs). But I didn’t dare to ask Yoko about that flower either. “I just asked him, “Is this what it looks like? I didn’t want him to tell me the answer. Well, I think the answer should be in your mind. What if I told you that it’s not even in my head? What if I told you that I won’t think about it until I get paid? (laughs) Leaving aside the answers in your mind for now, I’m guessing the current situation is that each player who has seen Ending E has his or her own interpretation of it, right? Yes, that’s what I meant. This flower is like a screen tone in shoujo manga. Ah, no, no, no (laughs). ## Is Your Creative Spirit Still Alive? The song of Keiichi Okabe’s soul I’d like to ask Mr. Okabe about this, but in the climax scene of “E End”, the music that plays along with the story kept changing. Was that something that was directed by Okabe, or was it directed by Yoko and the development team? It wasn’t made in this order, so yeah it was directed by Yoko and his team. And this is totally different from the question, but I just remembered a story. The episode of “The Little Mermaid” was added, and I wrote a new song for it. I see. So you composed the so-called synchronized score, or theatrical accompaniment, without the visuals? Yes. The in-game images were not ready yet, so we actually had to communicate with each other by receiving storyboards and motion-capture images. The more restrictions we had, the more energy it took to compose the music. But when I saw the final version, the images were completely different, and I was like, “Is that what you meant? (laughs). (laughs) Oh, that’s right. Were the changes that drastic? Yes, they were. It’s like, “Hey, I thought you were going to come up with something like this at this point.” Rather than just being out of sync, the composition itself was different. The planner designed and ordered the sequence, but when I saw it in the video, I made some changes, and the result was a drastic change. Well, it happens all the time, not just in games (laughs). It’s not uncommon for a game to be made to match a picture, but when you actually see it, the composition has completely changed. (laughs) Sometimes the sound is even edited to match the images. You’re bashing … No, no (laughs). It’s not a complaint or anything, it’s just that I thought, “Oh, it happens with you too” (laughs). I really like the theme of “The Little Mermaid,” and it’s been very well received by the fans, so I’m happy about that. I’m relieved to hear you say that. Basically, we were mainly arranging previous songs, and the only new songs were that one and one other. So, I guess I was a little concerned and I ended over-concentrating on them. But Yoko-san was unusually complimentary during development. He said, “The new song for The Little Mermaid is really good.” Really? Yes. I thought it was easy to use. That’s not what I meant! No, but it was really easy to use. Mr. Takano, who was in charge of advertising, also praised it, which is why it’s now playing on the official website. It was a really good song, so we used it on the official site. I was worried because Mr. Okabe said in an interview that his creative spirit had been dying lately, but thank you for the wonderful song. Even after your creative energy dies down, you still manage to squeeze out great songs. I think that makes you a great composer, Okabe. That’s a harsh way of putting it (laughs). To be honest, I thought I’d run out of ideas, but after a short break, my imagination kicked in again, and I was able to create something. (laughs) You had some time off, so you felt like you could do one or two songs? Yeah. That’s really how it felt. Actually, Yoko-san had asked us if it was possible to play to the Little Mermaid theme on the official website. What’s that, Yoko-san, are you some kind of tsundere? That was just to show that we have new songs. I just wanted to tell the fans that there are more than just arranged songs. The way you say it already sounds tsundere (laughs). But this was the new song for “Replicant” that the whole world had been waiting for, so there must have been a lot of pressure, not only for this song, but for the arrangement as well. Yes, there was. My biggest fear was that the fans would say, “This isn’t “Replicant.” I took great care in arranging the new songs and the existing songs. I think I was able to find a good balance. ## When the world will get rid of the virus, will the orchestra concert become a reality? You already experienced an NieR Orchestra Concert, did that change your approach to composition in any way? To be honest, I don’t think there’s been any change in my approach, but there may be some influence on the content. Right now, the world is suffering from the effects of the Coronavirus, but when the situation calms down in the future, I’m thinking that we might be able to have another similar concert. I think there are a lot of fans who would like to see that. I’ve started to compose songs by envisioning what it would be like in case we have a live concert. I thought it would look good in an orchestra style if I deliberately kept the sound down in the first half of the piece, and built it up as the second half progressed. I think I had my own kind of calculation. As expected of Okabe of the World. You never used to give thoughts to such things. Eleven years ago, I was saying “I’d love to do an orchestra concert” on the assumption that it would never be possible, but it has already become a reality. This time, too, the idea…… seems more real than in the past, and I think we should consider it. I already want to do it right away. If only the Coronavirus pandemic could calm down. But that’s a lot of work for you too Yoko… Concerts are surprisingly hard on me. I have to make the video and write the scenario. And surprisingly, it’s not hard for Okabe-san. He just gives a few words at the beginning and end, and then he is not even the one performing. I think it’s time for you to start wielding the baton yourself, even if it’s just for one song. No, no, no. I always try to keep the fans’ perspective in mind. Although that event is called a concert, it’s really an event for celebrating all aspects of NieR. If I were to go out there and make a poor tact, it would ruin the experience, wouldn’t it? Don’t overthink this before it even starts. If you write such a scenario, won’t Mr. Okabe be forced to participate? That sounds good. An event called “The End of a Foolish Composer”. I’m totally willing to write it. Please give me a break (laughs). But when you take on such a heavy responsibility, it also means that an event—that the fans have been waiting for—is coming true. I really want to do it right away. I greet people at the beginning and end of the event, but it’s not that I don’t want to participate. It’s just that I think it’s too tactless for me to come out and talk in between. So, I don’t want to break the immersion by waving my baton for a song in the middle of a concert. If I were to do it, it could be the first song before the greeting, or a bonus song, or something like that… Good idea. One song as a kind of prelude. This right here is like a Dinner Show, isn’t it? Now that you’ve said it, you have to do it. I’m looking forward to seeing it happen (laughs). By the way, I asked the young people on the scenario team to brainstorm ideas for the new songs. I asked them to come up with what kind of imagery they wanted to accompany it. On the other hand, you’re also having the young creators of MONACA work on the arrangements, right? That’s right. The “E Ending” was created by all these young people, and it also incorporates elements from Automata, so it has a very “jumbled” feel to it. When I was watching the final video, I thought it had the same vibe as a tribute movie made by fans. Maybe it’s the reasons why you felt the “continuous changes” that you mentioned in your question earlier. It’s wonderful. In my mind, this “ver. 1.22…” itself is like a fan movie in itself. It’s almost as if I’m re-creating something that everyone already knows and releasing it to the world. That’s why I refused Saito-san’s offer at first. How did you feel when you finally made it? I’m glad that new fans are playing the game, and for old fans it’s like a reunion, so I feel like this is a good thing. ## Favorite characters among the staff. Who is your favorite character? So, in light of this ver. 1.22… Please tell us about your favorite characters and events. I think I’ve been saying this for a long time, but I like Fyra. You’ve been pushing her for a long time, haven’t you? She’s the poor girl who couldn’t be the heroine, and I still feel the same way about her. NieR Replicant was originally set up with the King of Facade as the main character, wasn’t it? That’s right. In the original story, the King of Facade was the protagonist and Fyra was the heroine. I had to change my mind halfway through the story, and they had to become side characters. But I kept a special attachment to these two. Back then, I felt that the game world was not turning out well…… How about you, Saito-san? I haven’t changed in 11 years, I’m still the same person I was 11 years ago: I especially like Popola. Which part of the game do you like the most? It’s the event scene right before the end. I can’t get enough of the part where Popola snaps. For those of you who came into contact with the series with Automata, I think it was difficult to understand what kind of feelings Devola and Popola had in their hearts when they saved 9S in their climax scene. I’m glad for the girls, because I think the fans will be able to understand the mystery if they play this ver. 1.22… Well, they’ll have to bear the responsibility of another pair’s action for the next thousands of years (laughs). The voice of Ryoko Shiraishi, including her uncanny performance, makes her an unforgettable character. Now, let’s move on to Mr. Okabe. You haven’t cleared the game yet, so I guess you don’t know. It’s true that I’m only halfway through the game (sweat), but I’ve completed the PS3 version. Actually, like Saito-san, Devola and Popola left a strong impression on me as well. I didn’t think I’d be guessing the same thing. What do you like about them, Okabe? From a musical point of view, I love the song “Song of the Ancients/Fate” that plays during the scene where the two girls meet their fate. It was explained to me that the girls attack while singing and dancing and that they needed the music quickly so that they could make the dance motions. So, I had to send it to them. Yoko told you this 11 years ago right? Yeah that’s what I meant. When I saw the finished product, I couldn’t see how Popola was dancing because she was so far away and tiny, and I was so busy with the battle that I didn’t have time to look at her. I told her, “You don’t know anything at all,” to which she replied, “There are many things you can’t understand until you try.” I still have a very strong impression of that reply. During the development process, I also noticed that the two of them were dancing to the song, and I started to think of some way to draw the player’s attention to it, but I quickly gave up. …… (laughs) Okabe, Steve Jobs once said, “A good furniture maker pays attention to the parts you can’t see”. That’s what I’m talking about, Okabe. The spirit of a craftsman is to put his heart and soul in every detail of his work, even to parts the customer doesn’t notice. Of course that’s fine. It’s perfectly fine to put in the work. But in the end, we couldn’t write the music in time for the recording, so we had to record the dance to an existing song, and I composed the music to the BPM of that song. I see. So that’s how it was recorded and composed. At that time, the BPM of the existing song used for the recording was very unique. Normally, the BPM is a integer like 128, but at that time it was 128.3 or something like that. It bothered me that there was a very small discrepancy. So, in short, it wasn’t obvious, but towards the end of the song, that subtle discrepancy was bothering you. That’s exactly right. That’s why we made detailed adjustments to match the music, but when we delivered it, I asked, “What’s this minor difference in BPM?” It was a story that left a great impression on me. I’m sorry for rambling on so long. What I heard you say that, I thought that if you had just written the song in the first place, we wouldn’t have had to use an existing song. I’m sure that’s what everyone who reads this will think. I see what you mean. That’s true, though! --- ※ Not exactly sure what they are talking about here, I think they are referring to a picture-in-picture view of Popola dancing but I’m not sure how it relates to the subject right before… If you were so worried about it, you should have told us earlier. I could have added a view of Popola in the lower right corner, like in a variety show. So we would get to see Popola dancing in the background while fighting Devola? That would be fun! It’s not like a swimming competition of idols from the Shōwa era (※ 1926-1989) (laughs). That’s the part where they end up crying and fight, isn’t it? I don’t think it would make for an appropriate transition. --- Now that we’ve gone back to the Shōwa era, can you tell us about your favorite character? Yes, 11 years ago, I liked Tyrann. He’s an unreliable and unpredictable character, but little by little he got emotionally involved with Kainé, and in the end he protected her and just disappeared, which was really cool. Of course, I still like him, but now that I’ve worked on “ver. 1.22…”, I’ve come to realize how much I like Devola. I didn’t think I’d be guessing the same thing here. The popularity of Devola/Popola is through the roof! I always liked the character, but I wondered what the girls were thinking. In ver.1.22…, mini-episodes were added to show what the girls were thinking, and I also experienced their tragic back story in Automata, so I had a great deal of emotional involvement with them. The facial expressions of Devola and the others have been created with a great deal of care, and I hope everyone will pay attention to them. By the way, out of two, the reason why I prefer Devola is because I like … strong-willed women. You know, Ito-kun. You may look at it this way, but if you open the lid, you’ll find that Popola might be even stronger-willed. Yes, indeed! Thank you very much for revealing something about your sexuality (laughs). By the way, Ito-san, can you tell us about your favorite scene? The ones that left the biggest impression on me was the ones involving Roc. I like dogs a lot, but the scenario is also sad and memorable. He remembers the bond he had with his grandfather, and the way he decides to fight the humans for the sake of his friends is really moving. The ending was also just heartbreaking, and 11 years ago, I was thinking, “This must have been a scene created by very mean people” (looking at Yoko). Incidentally, for that specific scene, Yoko-san asked me to make it look more horrific, while keeping the spear going through Roc’s body stuck in the ground more consistently. For dog lovers, this seems like an unbearable request. In the original story, the appearance was not consistent, so we had to match it this time. So, he accepted to do it with tear in his eyes. It was not my intention as a director, but I wanted to make it look right. The young people did a great job. This time, I feel that the overall misery has been greatly increased from the PS3 version. I think it’s also due to the increased blood effects… Blood was a part of the game that we were very particular about from the very beginning, so that even more blood would be shown than in the original version, including in regular battles. The world of Automata was clean and sterile because the main actors are mechanical life forms and androids. So we wanted to make Replicant more human-like and raw. The blood effects were a part of that, and the concept was “let’s aim for a dirty NieR”. “Dirty NieR” ……. That’s a great power word. After the second round, when the player finds out what they were fighting, the blood splatter effect will look even more impressive. ## What’s next for the NieR series? Incidentally, if you were to get together again with this group, would you make a new NieR game? Or would you like to make something completely new? I’m open to any kind of offer. I don’t really have a specific idea of what I want to make. I can’t talk about it in detail right now, but the projects you’re working on right now have a lot of things that you want to do and things that you need to do, don’t they? Did Saito-san order you to do things? --- ※ Again not sure what’s the meaning here. I think it could be about Saito giving work to Yoko to that way he doesn’t end up jobless, or possibly the other way around as Yoko is answering the interviewer question… I’m really not sure what to make of it. Not really, I’m usually the one who sends out messages. Most of the things I want to do now, and I’m working on with Saito-san, are more for human reasons than for artistic reasons. Human reasons? You mean you want to give this person a job, so you have to create a project for them? Exactly. There is one case like that. That’s way too blunt (laughs). --- I think there are many fans who have high expectations for Yoko-san’s next work, regardless of how the project started or the subsequent process. On the other hand, I understand there is a business aspect to it and an incitive to keep on cultivating the NieR franchise. That’s right. If we are able to make another NieR game again, we’d have to do it while Yoko-san and Okabe-san are still active and engaged. That being said, I think it’s fine if they don’t work on it right away, and I think it would be appropriate if NieR is the last work that the two of them produce after they’ve dried up and squeezed out the last drop of their energy. That’s a good idea. Would you release it as a board game then? Okabe: That might be fun, but what about the music? Maybe by releasing the game on a different media, people can play it while playing the included CD in the background. I think there are a lot of people who don’t have access to a CD player, so I hope you’ll use a media more in tune with the times. Well, at least the next one will be a new game. If I were to make one. I don’t think there’ll be any news for a while, though. You say that, but there were recently some job openings for a NieR-related project, so I’m sure there are many fans who are expecting some kind of move. For the time being, I think it’s fine for you to do whatever you want to do. I can’t tell because I’m wearing a mask right now, but I’m sure there was a smile on Saito-san’s face. Well, when the time comes for me to make an announcement about it, I’ll be able to talk about it frankly. I’ll tell you bluntly how the sparkling creativity you’ve been imagining is but an illusion (laughs). Even through the mask, I could feel the evil smile on your face (chuckle). Personally, I think that your creativity can be recognized even if it’s not for games. Like a ramen shop? Why a ramen shop? In this day and age, the restaurant industry is in trouble. That’s true. When I read the comic “Shinso Game Creator’s Story” serialized by Cycomi, I wondered if the members of this group will get together again and create something out of the ordinary. Are you enjoying the manga? It’s not for me to say, but it’s so informal and lighthearted that I feel like this story is about someone else. I’ve been enjoying reading it. Mr. Okabe, you used to have a pompadour haircut when you were a student, didn’t you? Hmmm yes, yes. …… just kidding, it wasn’t a pompadour at all. I wasn’t like that hot character, that manga is far from accurate, I don’t want people to think that’s the truth (laughs). Saito-san, did you used to say “amigo” a lot…? I’ll let you guess. I was asked to supervise the story, but it was already close to completion so I had no choice but to let it pass. (laughs) If I had said, “the character should be different,” they’d have to rewrite the story from the beginning. I’ve been asked by some readers, “Did Saito-san used to be like that? I try to answer, “He’s still pretty much like that.” That’s totally wrong! What do you mean by “pretty much?” Even back then I wasn’t like that (laughs). I’m looking forward to seeing how Mr. Ito will be portrayed. Yeah me too. … But how far will that manga go? (laughs) No one knows that. Now for the last question. What kind of expansion do you see for the NieR series in the future, and do you have any ambitions or desires? There is a seven-year gap between Gestalt/Replicant and Automata. And eleven years between Gestalt/Replicant and ver1.22…, right? I think that if we continue at this rate, we will have plenty of time before the release of the next NieR game. Let’s hope Yoko-san and Okabe-san are still alive by then. To be honest, I think they can get by without me. Please don’t say that. No, no, no, I meant, I’d like the fans to pray for the health of the two of them. Well, Okabe and I both motivated by money. The moment Saito-san loses his grip on money, I think the NieR series will come to an end. I’m sure an even greater amigo will come then. But speaking of my personal feelings, of course I would like to play such new title. Of course, I want to continue the NieR series. But I also want to make sure that Yoko-san does what he wants to do, so I kindly ask the readers to be patient. How about you, Mr. Ito? I guess so. I tend to look at things from a fan’s perspective. I think that NieR is a series of games with a strong action RPG flavor, but with the release of Re[in]carnation, which can be played on smartphones, I think that the range of games has expanded. So I’d be happy if I could play NieR games that I never thought I’d be able to play in the future. Personally, I like romance simulations, so I’d like to play that too someday. Is it okay that there are only violent heroines in the game? Please use the title “NieR: Love”. It’s definitely not going to sell, ……. How about you, Okabe? Of course, I’d like to participate, as long as I can get an offer. As I mentioned earlier, I think that when there’s a pause, your imagination has enough time to replenish. So, when I’ll be skin and bones, I’d be happy to do it as a last pleasant souvenir. As a fan, I’m waiting for that day to come but I’m also no looking forward to that day. Lastly, I would like to ask you, Mr. Yoko. There’s one thing that I think was a mistake in the NieR series, and that’s the fact that I was the director for two games in a row. I think that now it would be difficult to suddenly change the director for a third game. I see. I guess there is that aspect. When I was working on Automata, I once told Mr. Taura that he should call himself the director, but he stubbornly refused. That’s how it affected me. In that sense, I believe that the NieR series must come to an end some point. We need to think carefully about how to do that. I don’t think it will end in the way everyone expects, like with the board game I mentioned earlier. I think there are many ways to approach it, but I think…the fans will still accept it. What about at the end of Re[in]carnation when the servers eventually shut down? We could ask the players to pay for the last installment in the NieR series? No, not at all. You can’t do that. All jokes aside, we do have Re[in]carnation now, don’t we? It’s not just a spin-off for smartphones, but a legitimate NieR title like Replicant and Automata, so we’re focusing on that right now, we’re not really thinking about what’s next. I see. Ambitions and desires…… If I had to say, I’d probably switch to someone other than Okabe for the music. Okabe, Yoko-san is saying something like that… No, no, it’s fine for me, even if I’m dismissed. It’s just that I wondered if the world would allow it. There it is. That’s the Okabe of the world! (laughs) Great we end on a punchline! Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedules to join us today. I’m looking forward to the future of the NieR series! [^1]: World of Okabe: Since Yosuke Saito designated it as a hashtag for the talk live of “Nia wo tsukareru music no kiroku”, a special program to commemorate Keiichi Okabe’s global expansion, this name has taken root among officials and fans.

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